PHL105Y Introduction to Philosophy Wednesday, October 18, 2006

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PHL105Y Introduction to Philosophy Wednesday,
October 18, 2006

• For next Mondays class, read to page 78 of the
  Plato book ( the first half of the Meno).
• Planning ahead? The UTM Career Centre is hosting
  a session for Philosophy Grads this Friday,
  October 20, 2006, 2-5pm sign up at
  http//www.utm.utoronto.ca/careers/calendar.html
• Tutorials continue this Friday. For this week,
  answer one of the following two questions, in
  about 200-250 words (about one typed
  double-spaced page) hand in the hard copy to
  your TA at the beginning of Fridays tutorial.
• In the speech Socrates imagines the laws of
  Athens would give if they could speak, it is said
  that the laws only propose things rather than
  giving savage commands to do whatever the laws
  order. (52a) What is meant by this contrast
  between proposals and savage commands?
• Speaking from the perspective of the laws,
  Socrates discusses at 53a-e the question of
  whether he should go into exile,. What is the
  problem with going to a well-governed city like
  Thebes? What is the problem with going to a
  lawless place like Thessaly?

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The Crito
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The setting

• Socrates has been in prison awaiting execution
  for almost a month although Athenian death
  sentences were ordinarily carried out swiftly,
  the ritual ship to Delos sailed the day before
  Socrates trial, and no executions can take place
  until it returns.
• The boat has been spotted off a nearby point of
  land and is expected back in port shortly.
• The sun is not yet up Socrates friend Crito has
  apparently bribed the jailor to allow an early
  visit.

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What reasons does Crito give for Socrates to
escape?

• Crito will lose a friend.
• Critos reputation will suffer hell be thought
  cheap.
• The necessary bribes arent even all that
  expensive.
• If Socrates is worried about the cost to his
  friends, strangers are willing to pay.
• Socrates can stay with Critos friends in
  Thessaly.
• By dying, Socrates will comply with the wishes of
  his enemies.
• Socrates should take care of his sons.
• The reputation of all of Socrates friends will
  suffer they will be thought cowardly and
  unmanly.

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The starting point

• Socrates and Crito agree that wrongdoing is never
  morally permitted, even when one has been wronged
  (and they claim to differ from the majority on
  this point).
• The question now becomes if Socrates escapes,
  will he be engaged in wrongdoing (even against
  those who have wronged him)?

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Agreements and wrongdoing

• Socrates If one has come to an agreement that
  is just with someone, should one fulfill it or
  cheat on it? (49e)
• Is obedience to the laws a kind of agreement?
• In the present case, is it a just agreement?

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Socrates relationship with the state

• Speaking from the perspective of the laws and the
  state, Socrates describes his relationship with
  them.
• Socrates was born into a marriage sanctioned by
  the state, and raised and educated under the
  protection of laws concerning education and the
  welfare of children, laws he does not criticize.

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Socrates relationship with the state

• Given their part in his upbringing, the laws deny
  that Socrates is on an equal footing with them,
  and free to reject their dictates (just as a
  child is not on an equal footing with a parent,
  or a servant with a master).

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Socrates relationship with the state

• Given their part in his upbringing, the laws deny
  that Socrates is on an equal footing with them,
  and free to reject their dictates (just as a
  child is not on an equal footing with a parent,
  or a servant with a master).
• What does the inequality of this relationship
  have to do with the nature of any agreement
  Socrates might have with the laws?

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Agreement with the lawsnot an agreement of
equals

• When Socrates says he has reached an agreement
  with the laws, this is different from the sort of
  agreement one might reach with an ordinary
  partner in conversation.

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Agreement with the lawsnot an agreement of
equals

• The idea is not that he just finds himself
  accepting the truth of whatever the laws say
  the point is not that he has become the sort of
  Athenian who would (for reasons of upbringing)
  never doubt the correctness of an Athenian law.

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Respect for the laws

• There is no right to retaliation against the
  laws if the laws decide it is right to destroy
  Socrates, this does not mean it is right for
  Socrates to try to destroy the laws in return.

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Respect for the laws

• There is no right to retaliation against the
  laws if the laws decide it is right to destroy
  Socrates, this does not mean it is right for
  Socrates to try to destroy the laws in return.
• What rights does Socrates have?

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Persuade or obey

• Given that the state is to be respected, you
  must either persuade it or obey its orders (51b)
• When is the persuade option open?

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Persuade or obey

• Given that the state is to be respected, you
  must either persuade it or obey its orders (51b)
• When is the persuade option open?
• When the laws do something wrong. (51e)

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Challenging a law

• Athens is governed by a democratic Assembly (the
  quorum 6000 citizens)
• The Council of 500 sets the agenda for the
  Assembly, but doesnt have legislative power
  (council positions are divided among the 10
  tribes, and assigned by lottery)
• If you think a new law is unconstitutional, you
  can bring a graphe paranomon against the person
  proposing it.

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The law under which Socrates was convicted

• Are there any grounds in the Apology for the idea
  that Socrates should have argued against the law
  under which he was convicted?

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The law under which Socrates was convicted

• Are there any grounds in the Apology for the idea
  that Socrates should have argued against the law
  under which he was convicted? (broadly, a law
  against impiety)
• It seems Socrates was happy with the law and
  wants to dispute the facts as Meletus has
  presented them.

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Why not try persuasion rather than obedience now?
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Why not try persuasion rather than obedience now?

• The courts have made their judgment (even if it
  was wrong, Socrates does not on account of that
  past wrong have a right to revenge).
• The law in question now is the one which orders
  that the judgments of the courts shall be carried
  out. (50bc)

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Why not try persuasion rather than obedience now?

• The law in question now is the one which orders
  that the judgments of the courts shall be carried
  out.
• Socrates says that the laws will be destroyed if
  their verdicts are disregarded (50b) he also
  maintains that they shouldnt be destroyed (see
  53c)
• Socrates does not want to persuade the laws that
  they are wrong here because he actually agrees
  with the law that is now being used to execute
  him.

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Socrates agreement with the state

• The laws and the state do not have automatic
  moral authority over anyone who sets foot on
  Athenian soil.
• Socrates argues that the laws and the state have
  an exceptionally high degree of moral authority
  over him, given the life he has led so far.

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Remaining and agreeing

• Socrates describes the laws as reminding him that
  the laws leave every Athenian citizen free to
  depart there are no barriers to taking ones
  property and leaving.
• Those who choose to remain, and see how the laws
  work, then agree to be bound by these laws.

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Socrates in particular

• Socrates emphasizes that he has never chosen to
  leave Athens (outside of military service) he
  has had children in Athens and been one of the
  most consistent residents of the city.
• For Socrates, to abandon Athens is to abandon a
  life under the protection of any law. (53be) Why
  would that be so bad? Why not enjoy a lawless
  feast in Thessaly?

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The relationship between the Apology and the Crito

• The Apology includes several discussions of law
  and morality.
• One of these is easy to fit with the Crito
  Socrates had served as a member of the Council
  seven years before, and had disagreed with the
  majority about the legality of a mass trial for
  ten military commanders he describes himself as
  risking prison to uphold the law here. (32ab)

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The relationship between the Apology and the Crito

• A trickier case
• Five years ago, when the democracy was briefly
  overthrown and the city was ruled by the Thirty,
  they summoned Socrates and four other men and
  ordered them to bring in Leon of Salamis for
  execution.
• Socrates did not obey (or persuade!) he went
  home. (32cd)

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The relationship between the Apology and the Crito

• In the Leon of Salamis case, one could argue that
• The Thirty didnt really have legal authority
  (and were only in power for eight months, so
  Socrates hadnt yet reached an agreement with
  them by staying on in Athens), or
• The law was going to be carried out anyway, with
  or without Socrates personal participation, or
• The position taken is just inconsistent with the
  one advocated in the Crito.

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The relationship between the Apology and the Crito

• Another hard case
• Socrates says that if he were to be acquitted on
  the condition that he quit philosophy, he would
  reply, Men of Athens, I am grateful and I am
  your friend, but I will obey the god rather than
  you, and as long as I draw breath and am able, I
  shall not cease to practice philosophy (29d)

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Resisting forced retirement

• Socrates is not at 29d promising to be a
  lawbreaker he knows that the prosecutors are
  seeking the death penalty, and not the penalty of
  silencing him as a philosopher.
• The jury has no legal authority to make Socrates
  take what he sees as a fate worse than death.

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But what if.

• Even if the jury at his trial didnt have the
  legal authority to get Socrates to stop doing
  philosophy, its possible in principle for
  someone in ancient Athens to have proposed a law
  against Socratic philosophical practice.

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A law against philosophy?

• How should Socrates respond to a law against
  philosophy, given what you know of him from the
  Crito and the Apology?

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A remaining problem

• At one of the very few points at which Socrates
  makes a positive claim to know something, he
  says,
• I do know, however, that it is wicked and
  shameful to do wrong, to disobey ones superior,
  be he god or man. (29b)
• Are we convinced that there will never be a
  situation in which doing the right thing and
  obeying ones superior will come into conflict?