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Title: God Talk


1
God Talk
2
On the Meaning of Terms
  • Meaning is constrained from two major sources.
  • My society provides a language where terms have
    multiple ranges of meaning.
  • My attempt to communicate something specific also
    constrains the meaning.
  • These constraints may or may not overlap.
  • Meanings are not preset but vary within a range
    with context.

3
Thats three runs.
  • Are we talking baseball?
  • Are we talking about nylons?
  • Are we talking about scientific lab results?
  • Are we talking about a track meet?
  • Are we talking about a game on your I-phone?

4
Can you lend me your largest ramafruge?
5
Two more requirements for meaning
  • The terms must be imaginable.
  • Examples of failure here are
  • The corner of the circle.
  • The intellectual development of a quark.
  • If the concepts are intended to describe
    something real they must be tied to experiences.
  • E.g. atoms, the dragons that attempt to swallow
    the sun and moon at eclipses.
  • What about the supernatural?

6
I propose Construmentalism
  • By this I mean that I choose (usually
    automatically), from among the available concepts
    that might be useful in describing and organizing
    my experiences, certain concepts with which to
    construe my experiences in a way that I hope will
    be useful to me and communicative to others.
  • To a significant extent, my mind dictates what I
    perceive.
  • Not only do I choose to think I operate this way,
    I choose to think everybody does.
  • Neither rationality nor empirical evidence
    determines the choice. I tend to construe things
    (according to stereotypical patterns) first and
    make up excuses later.
  • True/false, right/wrong are largely beside the
    point.

7
Implications of Construmentalism
  • If I am right I cannot prove it.
  • I can only propose and let you make of it what
    you choose.
  • I must sit lightly on my construments and wait to
    see if something better comes along.

8
Are we just playing with words?
  • Some people are going to accuse me of simply
    playing with the concept God.
  • But if so, this is serious play.
  • I am suggesting that people who dont know what
    they mean (or didnt know what they meant) , do
    (or did) in fact mean something. And this is it
    and it is empirical.
  • This path will allow theists and non theists to
    communicate.
  • We all live with each other. To ignore something
    important to many is not friendly but impolite to
    say the least.
  • Any conceptual framework which has survived for
    thousands of years, deserves some respect.
  • A generation which ignores history has no past 
    and no future.

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  • A brightness illusion - the centre on the left
    looks brighter

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16
If the eye is at Q there will be a virtual image
of P at P. P is not real but the observer
might not know that! Further the observer might
not have a concept for P and therefore be unable
to perceive P.
P
17
Having a referent for God
  • The term God is a human term. We created it.
    We apply it or we dont. If we dont choose to
    apply it to something it becomes meaningless (or
    vague) to us.
  • It strikes me as incredible that many would try
    to prove or disprove the existence of God without
    first knowing (or deciding) to what the term
    refers or might be applied.

18
Contributions from Immanuel Kant
  • The capacities of the mind determine (contribute
    to) what we can and do experience.
  • The stress on the distinction between phenomenal
    and noumenal.
  • Limiting knowledge to the phenomena.
  • We make some (not all) knowledge claims based on
    what the mind brings to experience.
  • His useful distinction between pure and pragmatic
    reason.
  • The role of forms and categories. Not fully
    correct, but suggestive.

19
So what further do we need?
  • Kants mechanics of the mind were defective.
    So we need a better theory of how construments
    develop from mental operations. Hawkins provides
    this.

20
Hawkins on Intelligence
  • Memory, Intelligence, Awareness, etc. in mammals
    seem to be functions of the mammalian cortex.
  • The structure of the mammalian cortex is new with
    the evolution of mammals hence the word
    neocortex.
  • In humans the cortex is more extensive than in
    other animals, about 30 billion cells with an
    average of 1000 synapses per cell.
  • 90 or more of the cortex seems to have the same
    structure.

21
The cortex as pattern recognition organ
  • From the uniformity of structure, Hawkins follows
    Mountcastle in hypothesizing uniformity of
    function.
  • Assuming the cortex is the organ of intelligence,
    the only input is a spatial-temporal collection
    of electro-chemical discharge patterns.
  • These come from sense organs, and various
    sections of the brain, including the cortex
    itself.
  • Our cortex creates our awareness of whatever from
    its perceptions of patterns in these discharges.

22
On Memory
  • Hawkins doesnt attempt to give us a precise
    mechanism for memory other than to suggest that
    the synapses are involved in storing and
    recognizing discharge patterns.
  • It takes many fewer synapses to store a label
    than to store what the label represents.

23
The cortex is not like a computer!
  • The cortex stores sequences of patterns.
  • The cortex recalls patterns auto-associatively.
  • The cortex stores patterns in an invariant form.
  • The cortex stores patterns in a hierarchy.
  • Illustration Recalling the memory of a song.
  • You will know the next note even if it is in a
    key, a voice, or an instrument, youve never
    heard before.

24
How do you have a useful concept of dog or
circle etc.
  • Every dog is a little different from other dogs
    and every time you see the same dog the
    experience is a little different.
  • It helps to have seen some dogs, cats, birds,
    cows, etc. (so you have some memories and can
    build some similarity relations).
  • Now when you see another dog, the discharge
    patterns in the cells of the cortex somehow seem
    similar to those associated with the name dog
    and not so much to the name cat.

25
Forward and Backward Processing
  • Each section of the cortex is taking inputs from
    multiple sections below or from the senses and
    from the thalamus and other sections of the
    brain. Perhaps I will already have enough clues
    to process at a high level.
  • Processing goes forward and back. The back
    processing is a prediction (construment) of what
    you are sensing based on some similarity to some
    pattern in memory.
  • It can fill in what you dont sense.
  • It can preempt the forward processing by
    inhibiting alternative forward processing.

26
Summary from Hawkins
  • The cortex does not work by formal logic! Its
    guesswork, construment.
  • The cortex will likely find something familiar, a
    suggested construment, even for first time
    experiences.
  • If the dissonance is too much there is a
    mechanism to handle that and constitute a new
    memory.
  • There is no role for foundational propositions to
    explain our beliefs.
  • We dont conclude things based on self-evident or
    revealed propositions.
  • We dont attempt to prove that our construments
    (predictions or guesses) are the only possible
    ones.
  • Recognition, metaphor, even artistic imagination
    are in play.
  • So far there is no role for proof. Our
    construments are stereotypical.
  • Culture, early childhood experiences, and
    religious upbringing lead to different models of
    morality and the world. Moral reasoning is
    learned.

27
How we think
  • The mind/brain is not primarily an engine of
    rationality.
  • We do not think rationally and we are not like
    computers.
  • But, by grasping how we do think, we should be
    able to build better robots and fashion better
    arguments.
  • Consider politics of reframing.

28
The Role of Art
  • Because of the presence of choice and the
    underdetermined character of our conclusions it
    is becoming evident that life itself is an art
    form.
  • We construe our self-concept, and the rest of our
    phenomenal world, even our life in an artistic
    way.
  • Science can be helpful, but it too is an art form.

29
Rest of paper
  • Present a Proposal for Empirical Referent of
    God (next 6 slides)
  • Ancient Antecedents and development (5 slides)
  • Some support from the Scientific study of
    Religion (11 slides)
  • Some support from A History of God
  • Have time for Questions and Answers

30
What do we mean by empirical?
  • Knowledge (a pattern) comes only or primarily
    from sense experience.
  • The use of sensory evidence, tests, and
    experiments should enable us to choose patterns.
  • The words empirical and experience come from
    cognate Greek and Latin words which were used to
    describe the method of a school of medicine that
    opposed the dogmatic approach.

31
There are different degrees of Empiricism.
  • Strong Empiricism we only know what comes from
    our senses (nothing else).
  • Whatever we claim to know (from whatever source)
    should be confirmed or refuted by appeal to our
    senses.
  • Whatever patterns we choose to use should be tied
    to experiences. (If what we conceive cannot be
    reconciled with our experience then there is a
    problem.)

32
The concept God is tied to our experiences.
  • If it were not so, it would have disappeared!
  • The concept is fundamental and privileged. Much
    more so than unicorn, tooth fairy, Santa
    Claus, Easter bunny, or sandman, etc.
  • Many people have religious experiences.
  • There is something called the God Helmet used
    in Persinger's research in the study of the
    neural correlates of religion and spirituality.

33
God is experienced as
  • Powerful but there can be no empirical
    foundation for omnipotence.
  • Benevolent but not omni benevolent.
  • Knowledgeable but not omniscient.
  • Long lasting but not eternal.
  • Widely available but not omnipresent.
  • Good but not perfect.

34
God is experienced as
  • Within us.
  • Our physical and biological environment.
  • Our social context.
  • Our significant others.
  • Our culture.

35
God
  • Society
  • Sociology
  • External Environment
  • Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Agriculture
  • Internal Environment
  • Psychology, Medicine, Neurophysiology
  • Significant Others
  • Psychology, Sociology
  • Culture
  • Anthropology

36
Ancient Antecedents
  • Maat
  • Rta (later Dharma)
  • Asha (derived from Rta? Later Ahura Mazda)
  • Tao (leads to wu wei, leads to laissez faire)
  • Logos
  • Buddha Nature, Sunyata

37
Egyptian Goddess Maat
  • Ancient Egyptian concept of truth, balance,
    order, law, morality, and justice.
  • As a Deity she regulates the stars, seasons, and
    actions of mortals and deities in this life and
    the next.
  • At creation she set the order of the universe and
    then sustains it.
  • The sun god Ra created by setting his daughter
    Maat in place of chaos.

38
Some Biblical references to God
  • Exodus 3 Gods name is YHWH, the verb to be.
    Implies that God is Being itself, Existence, The
    Ground of Being, that with which we are
    ultimately concerned.
  • Genesis God is the creator and sustainer.
  • Exodus 20, Deuteronomy 5 God is lawgiver and
    Judge. Source of morality.
  • Psalm 19 The heavens declare the glory of God.
    Attributes of God seen in environment.
  • Psalm 50, Deut. 33 God shines forth from the
    land, is present in his people, etc.
  • Psalms, Isaiah 63, Jer. 2,3, Hosea, etc. God as
    Father, spouse, even kinsman.
  • Various people have various gods Individual
    gods tie together the individual societies that
    live in various places. Jews are not to worship
    them because they lead away from YHWH and into
    foreign societies.

39
Some New Testament refs to God
  • John 1 Jesus is the logos incarnate.
    (neo-platonic view) Logos God Maat. The
    rational character of everything is God.
  • John 8 I came from God. you are of your
    father the devil. There is something within
    individuals which forms them and guides their
    perceptions and actions.
  • Acts 17 Paul preaches in Athens about the
    unknown god in him we live and move and have
    our being. We are his offspring. This
    environment shapes our lives, our activities, and
    our very essence.
  • Eph 6 Our struggle is not against flesh and
    blood, but against principalities and powers of
    the air. Devils like Deities are not a type of
    being but characteristics of our environment.
  • I John 4 God is love. Whoever lives in love
    lives in God and God in him. God is a
    relationship to others.

40
Historical development of concepts
  • Philosophy
  • Natural philosophy
  • Natural science
  • Science, scientist
  • God
  • Nature
  • Human nature
  • Society, culture
  • An example of some of this transition can be seen
    in the six editions of Adam Smiths Theory of
    Moral Sentiments (from 1759 to 1790).
  • Some who would not object to Nature has provided
    man with. would object to God has provided man
    with. And some who would object to Human
    nature equips the individual with. would not
    object to Society provides the individual with.

41
Freuds Dark Vision
  • Freud regards religion as false and illusory.
  • But useful as wish fulfillment and as restraint
    on human instincts toward incest, cannibalism, a
    lust for killing, and to combat laziness.
  • Humans seek to maximize pleasure while minimizing
    suffering. Our tools are civilization (culture)
    and religion which supports it by restraining our
    negative impulses.
  • But this solution creates displeasure by virtue
    of
  • Our own painful, mortal existence
  • Cruel and destructive aspects of the natural
    world
  • Necessary sacrifices to live with other people.
  • While the love instinct can be used to bind
    society together, the aggressive instinct must be
    repressed or redirected toward other societies.
  • Repressed instinctive drives show up as guilt, or
    anxiety, or neuroses. Religion attempts to deal
    with these by explaining evil and providing
    forgiveness.

42
Later psychoanalytic view
  • The great religions help some people to resolve
    their internal and external conflicts, integrate
    their personalities and optimize their
    relationships (salvation).
  • But many are left in a childish state of
    subservience to myth.
  • Jung said that the gods are archetypes from the
    collective unconsciousness. When projected they
    lose power. Most of his patients (2nd half of
    practice) suffered from losing contact with these
    gods.
  • Psychoanalysis might be a better way. Thus
    Psychoanalysis is the rich mans religion or
    Religion is the poor mans psychoanalysis.

43
Hawkins, Bruce Hood and beyond
  • We often think we have experienced something we
    havent.
  • We have seen things fall but not gravity.
  • We have seen live bodies but not life.
  • We have experienced many dogs but not dog.
  • We have experienced instances of social suasion
    but not God.
  • In every case the abstract noun on the right is
    taken as a name for one or more perceived
    patterns.
  • If we dont have abstract nouns like society or
    culture, the term God is very useful.
  • So God is a construment.

44
Hawkins, Hood, and beyond 2
  • We have all experienced the feeling that someone
    or something, either within or outside our mind
    wants us to do something.
  • Hawkins and Hood have shown that we have the
    concept of agency available even where we have
    not seen the agent.
  • If the rains have washed out our path,
  • If a crocodile eats the mailman,
  • Or a tornado tears the roof off a house,
  • Or the wind blows the water back allowing us to
    cross where there was water, etc.
  • Surely it was an act of God. And
  • Who is it who insists that I pay attention to my
    neighbors needs?
  • Who suggests that I root for the home team when I
    dont know the players?
  • Who convinces me to make a contribution to my
    church or United Way?
  • Why do I stop at a red light when no one else is
    there?
  • Why do I keep my promises? Why do I care what
    happens to others? Etc.
  • These are not rational extrapolations from Kants
    categorical imperative. Some would cite social
    pressures and political calculations. But
    where these concepts are not available, God is
    a simpler explanation. I am not saying God is
    a better explanation, but that we are prewired to
    think that way.

45
Emile Durkheim
  • Religion is what holds society together.
  • God is society writ large. It is societys way
    of representing itself to itself. The believers
    self image depends on God.
  • The totemist knows that the totem represents God.
    He also knows that it represents his society. He
    may have another for himself.
  • Religion reflects societys collective aspects.
    Every society can be called religious, for any
    society lacking collective ways of thinking and
    acting is not in fact a society.
  • If we feel dependent on god, that is but a
    symbolic representation of our dependency on
    society
  • if we tremble at gods justice and punishment,
    that is our regard for societys laws.
  • Our reverence for divinity is but our respect for
    society
  • our belief in the immortality of the soul, our
    belief in the continuity of the collective life.

46
These concepts are protected and existentially
vital.
  • They are protected because they are vital to the
    maintenance of society, the collective life of
    the group.
  • Also therefore of
  • Culture
  • Ones own self concept
  • A religion is a unified system of beliefs and
    practices relative to sacred things, that is to
    say, things set apart and surrounded by
    prohibitions beliefs and practices that unite
    its adherents in a single moral community called
    a church.

47
Later Sociologists
  • When sociologists say god is mediated to us by
    society they mean more than that others tell us
    what to believe. They mean that the referent is
    social. Many gods have become obsolete, but so
    have those societies.
  • Guy Swanson found that belief in god was
    universal in societies with three or more levels
    of sovereign groups.

48
E. E. Evans-Pritchard (d.1973)


  • Argued that religion of the Azande (witchcraft
    and oracles) must be understood in social context
    and function. (solving disputes)
  • Azande faith in witchcraft and oracles was quite
    logical and consistent once some fundamental
    tenets were accepted.
  • Loss of faith could not be endured because of its
    social importance.
  • Hence they had an elaborate system of
    explanations (or excuses) against disproving
    evidence.
  • Besides an alternative system of terms or school
    of thought did not exist.

49
Clifford Geertz definition of Religion
  • Religion is a system of symbols which acts to
    establish powerful, pervasive, and long-lasting
    moods and motivations in men by formulating
    conceptions of a general order of existence and
    clothing these conceptions with such an aura of
    factuality that the moods and motivations seem
    uniquely realistic.
  • Culture is also a system of symbols, So religion
    is a form of culture. And one the most important
    symbols is God.

50
Geertz Comment on Culture and the role of
Anthropologist
  • Geertz followed Weber when he wrote that man is
    an animal suspended in webs of significance he
    himself has spun and the analysis of it must be
    therefore not an experimental science in search
    of law but an interpretive one in search of
    meaning.
  • The anthropologist must be both empirically
    rigorous and a savvy interpreter, akin to a
    psychoanalyst.
  • In 1972 he wrote that cultural analysis is (or
    should be) guessing at meanings, assessing the
    guesses and drawing explanatory conclusions from
    the better guesses.

51
Looking at the Human Sciences we have seen
  • Psychologists discussing the way God can be
    used to deal with problems of self integration
    and depth psychology.
  • Sociologists saying God is society writ large.
  • Anthropologists saying God is a protected
    concept because it is used to support culture of
    which it is a part.
  • I am saying God (as the horizon of being) is that
    with which we deal in these sciences.

52
God as Kinsman, Father, Spouse (I.e.
Significant Other) 4
  • Lev. 2525, Num. 58, Ruth, Psa. 19, Isa.43, 49,
    etc.
  • There are certain responsibilities that kinsmen
    have and God assumes these responsibilities and
    demands them of us.
  • Hosea
  • God tells Hosea to marry a prostitute as a
    metaphor of His relation to Israel.
  • In the New Testament we are the Bride of Christ.
  • Also common in Christian mystics.
  • Common in Bhakti poetry, Islamic
    mysticism.p.130f

53
God seems to have changed his mind about the
Vietnam war nowadays you hardly talk to anyone
who favors it.
  • This quote (attributed to a lay preacher in
    California) is from Time or Newsweek from the
    late 1960s commenting on the growing opposition
    to the war.
  • It is a beautiful example of Biblical parallelism
    in which the same thing is said twice with
    different words.
  • The implication is that for the preacher, God
    the people that he is talking to, i.e. his
    significant others.

54
How far is it from seeing God as a father, a
spouse, or a kinsman to seeing our significant
others as part of God?
55
God within us 1
56
Karen Armstrong writes that after the Romans
destroyed the temple in Jerusalem, the Rabbis
produced a major insight (In Mishnah and two
Talmuds).
  • God had, as it were, adapted himself to each
    person according to the comprehension of each.
    As one Rabbi put it, God does not come to man
    oppressively but commensurately with a mans
    power of receiving him. This very important
    rabbinic insight meant that God could not be
    described in a formula as though he were the same
    for everybody he was essentially a subjective
    experience. Each individual would experience the
    reality of God in a different way to answer the
    needs of his or her own particular temperament.
    Each one of the prophets had experienced God
    differently, the rabbis insisted, because his
    personality had influenced his conception of the
    divine. We shall see that other monotheists
    would develop a very similar notion. To this
    day, theological ideas about God are very private
    matters in Judaism and are not enforced by the
    establishment. p. 74

57
In mainline Christianity
  • The Christian Gnostic tradition was effectively
    banned during the time of Constantine. But
    Christian mysticism survived.
  • Augustine found God by looking within his own
    psyche. He even found models of the trinity in
    his mental capacities which he took to be part of
    the image of God within himself. Now we might
    say that Augustine psychoanalyzed himself in his
    autobiography.
  • In reaction to the Protestant Reformation,
    Ignatius Loyola(1491-1556) developed his
    spiritual exercises which are a crash course in
    mysticism and are still used by some Catholics
    and Anglicans as an alternative to
    psychotherapy. p. 284

58
Islamic Sufism
  • Sufism is the internal aspect of Islam.
    (mystical)
  • Many are quoted saying things like I am God!,
    The Father and I are one!, I am the Truth!
  • Al-Junayd (d.910) taught a Muslim could be
    reunited with his creator. It would be the end
    of separation and sadness, a reunion with a
    deeper self that was also the self that he or she
    was meant to be. God was not a separate external
    reality and judge but somehow one with the ground
    of each persons being.p.227

59
Islamic Sufism (continued)
  • For the mystic the revelation is an event that
    happens within his own soul. We have seen,
    however, that during the eleventh century, Muslim
    philosophers such as Ibn Sina and al-Ghazali
    himself had found that objective accounts of God
    were unsatisfactory and had turned toward
    mysticism. Al-Ghazali had made Sufism acceptable
    to the establishment and had shown that it was
    the most authentic form of Muslim spirituality.
    During the twelfth century the Iranian
    philosopher Yahya Suhrawardi and the Spanish-born
    Muid ad-Din ibn al-Arabi linked Islamic Falsafah
    indissolubly with mysticism and made the God
    experienced by the Sufis normative in many parts
    of the Islamic empire. p.229f
  • Several Islamic mystics developed techniques
    similar to modern psychoanalytic techniques.

60
How far is it from saying that each man
experiences God differently depending on the
inner workings of his own mind to saying that
part of what one experiences in experiencing God
is the deep and inner workings of his own mind?
61
God is immanent in the Community 3
  • After the destruction of the temple, the
    Israelites were encouraged by their Rabbis to see
    themselves as a united community with one body
    and one soul. The community was the new Temple,
    enshrining the immanent God thus when they
    entered the synagogue and recited the Schema in
    perfect unison with devotion, with one voice,
    one mind and one tone, God was present among
    them. The higher union of God and Israel could
    only exist when the lower union of Israelite with
    Israelite was complete constantly, the Rabbis
    told them that when a group of Jews studied the
    Torah together, the Shekinah sat among them. p.
    76

62
The mystical Body of Christ
  • Christians also understood that wherever two or
    three are gathered together in my name, there am
    I.
  • Augustine said "Let us rejoice then and give
    thanks that we have become not only Christians,
    but Christ himself. Do you understand and grasp,
    brethren, God's grace toward us? Marvel and
    rejoice we have become Christ.
  • Both Catholics and Protestants have understood
    the Church to be the Body of Christ.

63
How far is it from saying that God is immanent in
the community to saying that a part of the
perception of God is the perception of the
community or society?
64
God and our environment 2
  • God is understood to have created and sustained
    all that is. All that is, comes from Him and is
    therefore good.
  • The stoics (The universe itself is God.)
    Neo-Platonists and Pythagoreans all understood
    the world to be some sort of emanation from the
    divine.
  • The logos is present in all that is.

65
God and our environment
  • Al-Ghazali (d.1111) said that everything we see
    or experience is the Face of God. Nothing else
    truly exists. p.190
  • Isaac Newton suggested that we exist in Gods
    sensorium along with everything we experience.
  • Spinoza and Leibniz were pantheists.
  • Tillich said God is the ground of being (of
    everything).

66
How far is it from saying that all that we can
see is God or the Face of God to saying God (at
least in part) is all that we can see? I.e.
Our physical and biological environment is part
of God.
67
God and Culture are linked 5
  • Moses, Jesus, Muhammad split our calendars and
    inaugurated cultures.
  • Armstrong points out that as the Western Roman
    empire began to fall, the Christian concept of
    God became darker and more defensive.p.123
  • At the fall of Constantinople and the start of
    the Renaissance all the major monotheisms were
    experiencing change. By the end of the sixteenth
    century, the West was about to create an entirely
    different type of culture. It was, therefore, a
    time of transition and, as such, characterized by
    anxiety as well as achievement. This was evident
    in the Western conception of God at this time.
    p. 257
  • This is even more evident in Calvinism then in
    Lutheranism. cf. pp. 279f cf. Max Weber, The
    Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism

68
Muhammad and Islamic Culture
  • Before Muhammad Arabic culture was tribal,
    polytheistic, individualistic, brutal, and
    valuing wealth, power, and fame.
  • Muhammad knew that monotheism was inimical to
    tribalism a single deity would integrate
    society as well as the individual. p. 149
  • Armstrong points out that the pillars of Islam
    consciously create a new culture. In practical
    terms, islam meant that Muslims had a duty to
    create a just, equitable society where the poor
    and vulnerable are treated decently. The early
    message of the Koran is simple it is wrong to
    stockpile wealth and to build a private fortune,
    and good to share the wealth of society fairly by
    giving a regular proportion of ones wealth to the
    poor. pp.142ff

69
How far is it from saying that a new vision of
God produces a new culture to saying that culture
is part of the vision of God.
70
Aeschylus (525-456 BC) quote
  • He who learns must sufferAnd even in our
    sleep pain that cannot forgetFalls drop by drop
    upon the heart,And in our own despite, against
    our will,Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace
    of God.

71
How far is it from saying that the prophet or
mystic has a direct, intuitive knowledge of God,
which is derived more from the imagination than
from the intellect, to saying that the prophet
imagines a construment of God or imaginatively
utilizes the God symbol?
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