3rd Place Open Discussion

1
3rd Place Open Discussion

• Sexual Ethics, 21st March 2009

2
The scope sources

• Skimming across issues such as
• Current views and practice in the UK
• Attitudes toward sex
• The theological debate on homosexuality.
• Sources
• Jubilee Centre
• Evangelical Alliance
• Stonewall
• bethinking.org
• National Statistics

3
What is the predominant family unit?
4
Some more stats

• 2007 270,000 marriages
• Civil Partnerships introduced in 2005
• 2006 c.15,000, falling to
• 2007 8,700 civil partnerships (c.3 of
  marriages).
• How many same sex households are there
  Neighbourhood Statistics suggest c.78,000 UK
  across England (c.0.2)
• How many people are lesbian or gay no official
  statistics but general consensus that it is
  about 5-7.

5
What do people think?

• Stonewall research (Love they Neighbour) revealed
  that
• The view from the pew was often much more
  tolerant and moderate in their views about
  homosexuality that is often claimed on their
  behalf
• Living, working and socialising with lesbian and
  gay people significantly reduces negative ideas
  about difference
• New civil partnership have had a civilising
  effect on British Society
• Yougov poll of 2,000 people in 2007 saw 84
  disagreeing with the statement homosexuality is
  morally unacceptable in all circumstances.

6
Once gay always gay

• Homosexuality as a mental illness
• Homosexuality as who you are by nature
• But for a Christian our nature is not defined by
  our sexual orientation but by being human, made
  in the image of God, fundamentally relational in
  our being
• Note Peter Tatchell (founder of OutRage and gay
  campaigner) condemned any attempt to search for a
  gay gene as the flawed theory which claims a
  genetic causation for homosexuality.

7
Quotes

• Everybody has the right to live life in his own
  way so if somebody is lesbian or homosexual,
  its entirely up to them.
• Ive come across some gay people and I think Ive
  changed my opinion. I have worked with these
  people. Theyre really, really nice people
  they are people.
• To judge somebody because of their sexuality is
  the same as judging them because of their colour.
  Its not acceptable.

8
The relevance of the Bible to modern culture

• Shouldnt we catch up with the moral developments
  of society and ditch outmoded, outdated views
  about sexuality? But this implies
• That the Bible was written at a time when
  prohibition of sex outside heterosexual marriage
  was the norm, but it wasnt
• That old is bad and that somehow we are now
  more enlightened and progressive.

9
Relevant passages

• Genesis 221-4
• Matthew 196
• Exodus 2014
• Leviticus 18 20
• Proverbs 217
• Malachi 214

10
How serious is sexual sin

• Where should sexual sin sit in the rankings?
• At times we (as a society, or as the Church
  within our society) have ranked it as top of the
  pops the thing to be most against (perhaps
  alongside theatre going and smoking)!!
• However, Rabbis at the time of Jesus had the same
  challenge what should apply from the Old
  Testament to gentiles who wished to live amongst
  them? Their answer was
• No idolatry, violence or sexual immorality
• Mirrored, interestingly, by the Jerusalem Council
  in Acts 15.

11
The debate about homosexuality in the Church

• Focuses on the principles of grace and covenant
• Grace, in that all our relationships are fallen
  and that God reaches out with his grace to all
  situations, therefore even in a homosexual or
  lesbian relationship there can be good and God
  can therefore bless this relationship the grace
  of God may operate even in quite flawed sexual
  encounters, and may thereby awaken those involved
  in such encounters to certain more positive
  aspects of their own God-give sexual identity
• Covenant, in that a covenant commitment between
  two people is holy because it reflects Gods
  covenanted love for us, and gives us a framework
  for learning to love in his image.

12
Questions

• Sin mars all forms of relationship marriages
  as well as homosexual partnerships, therefore
  how do we respond to suggestions of a continuum
  of varied sexual relationships rather than the
  dualities of sinful/righteous when, for example
  we know that the depths of friendship, self
  sacrifice and commitment in many marriages is
  woefully deficient?
• How do we understand Gods grace working through
  Abrahams relationship with Hagar, David with
  Bathsheba ( Solomon) etc the genealogy of
  Jesus in Matthew contains one or two savoury
  characters!

13
More about covenant

• Covenant implies obedience, that is to the
  commands of God which are so intrinsic to the
  language of covenant disciplines essential to
  the revolution that is Yahwism
• Such revolutionary discipline applies just as
  crucially to the new covenant made manifest in
  Jesus Christ obedience is convincing when it
  so reorders all of our life from the ground up by
  having to stand as an oddity in the world at
  odds with all the conventional orderings of
  society.

14
Covenants again

• Covenants in general are frequently traduced and
  violated by the people of God in scripture but
  from Gods point of view, the integrity of the
  covenant per se is not thereby voided
• God can very well bring some good out of our
  unrighteousness even before we repent of it. But
  God is still a God who desires relationship and
  co-operation from us, such grace does not excuse
  us from repenting of what has has revealed as
  wrong
• Note we live in the shadow of a culture and
  period in history which is quite distinct in
  being accepted that sexual immorality of all
  sorts were frowned on by the prevailing culture
  this was not so in the Old Testament (Lev 1822
  2013), New Testament (Romans 126-27 1 Cor
  69), or perhaps now in 21st Century UK.

15
Options.

• Rejecting-punitive rejection of homosexual
  behaviour and orientation as incompatible with
  Christianity hostile toward people who are
  homosexual
• Rejecting-compassionate homosexual behaviour is
  contrary to Gods creative intent and never
  permissible for Christians. However, actions and
  orientation are distinguished and the church is
  to welcome in the community of forgiven sinners
  al who will follow Jesus.

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Options (contd)

• Qualified acceptance the homosexual person is
  rarely, if ever, responsible for his sexual
  orientation it is not ideal because Gods
  intent is for heterosexual relationships but
  occasionally and reluctantly, one may accept a
  homosexual partnership as the only way for some
  people to achieve a measure of humanity in their
  lives
• Full acceptance the unitive purpose of
  sexuality is paramount over and above the
  procreative purpose and therefore same sex
  relationships can fully express the central
  purpose for sexuality.

17
Toleration

• Christians must be prepared to tolerate other
  views, but this does not mean they have to agree
  with them. The word tolerate itself implies that
  I respect the other persons right to express
  their view (if I agree with them theres nothing
  to tolerate)
• But does tolerance have to be neutral or even
  stony faced indifference and distance?

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The good news for homosexuals

• Identity sexuality is not the single most
  important fact about a person, although for
  lesbian and gay people this is often the case.
  This is both a real challenge and needs to be
  treated sensitively, and yet is also,
  potentially, the most transforming aspect of the
  gospel
• Holiness and healing a tough road, but one to
  be travelled as in many spheres of life
• Community being sensitive as church to the
  needs of practicing or searching lesbian and gay
  people.