PHL 105Y October 12, 2005

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PHL 105YOctober 12, 2005

• My office hours today will be 2-3pm.
• What can you do with a degree in philosophy?
  Information session this Friday (October 14)
  North Building 262, 1-3 pm
• For next Monday, read to the end of chapter seven
  of the Republic.
• For Fridays tutorial, answer one of the
  following two questions (write about a page it
  will be collected)
• At 434ab, Socrates suggests that it would be OK
  for a shoemaker to change jobs and become a
  carpenter, but it wouldnt be OK for him to
  become a soldier. Why is the first kind of
  switch acceptable but not the second?
• What is the difference between the passionate
  part of the soul and the desirous part of the
  soul? (See 439c-442b)

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The Noble Lie continuedThe myth of the metals

• We are all earth-born brothers, but, while we
  were being formed under the earth, God has
  placed
• --gold in the minds of the rulers
• --silver in the minds of the auxiliaries
• --iron and copper in the minds of the farmers and
  workers

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The Noble Lie continuedThe myth of the metals

• -each person is to do work appropriate to his or
  her nature
• -a silver or iron child may be born to a golden
  parent and vice-versa children are to be raised
  according to their natures and not according to
  the class of their parents

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The lifestyle of the rulers

• They are to have virtually no private property
  (since they have gold and silver in their minds,
  they are told they do not need earthly gold and
  silver)
• They are to live in public barracks, and eat in
  common dining halls.
• They have public power, but no private money

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The lifestyle of the producers

• Farmers, merchants and craftsmen pursue their own
  private gain they can come to own land and
  houses, and accumulate money (as long as they do
  not become so wealthy they will no longer work)
• They have private funds, but no public power

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Satisfaction?

• Question do people in this ideal community do
  what they want to do?

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Satisfaction?

• Question do people in this ideal community do
  what they want to do?
• iron and copper people cannot rule but can pursue
  their own private gain (and they are described as
  being motivated mainly by desire for their own
  private gain)
• gold and silver people can rule but cannot pursue
  their own private gain (and they are described as
  being motivated mainly by patriotism, by the
  desire to do what is best for the city)

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Class division in the ideal community

• So people are acting in accordance with their
  desires. But note that these desires are under
  social control we ensure that people have the
  right desires by controlling the stories and
  music they hear and the games they play as
  children.
• The ideal city has self-interested producers free
  to pursue their own self-interest, and unselfish
  or altruistic rulers free to serve others
  unselfishly by ensuring the best possible
  organization of the city. (Recall morality is
  not supposed to be a compromise.)

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The Noble Lie continuedThe myth of the metals

• So, why is Adeimantus still worried that the
  guardians wont be happy? (419a)
• And why the lie? Why not tell people the truth?
  
• How false is the lie? Is it a true lie? (See
  382a)

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Chapter 6 Virtues in the individualand in the
community

• The four traditional virtues
• Wisdom
• Courage
• Self-discipline
• Morality

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Virtues in the community

• 1. Wisdom
• The wisdom of the community is not secured by the
  fact that it has wise people in it the wise
  people have to be in control for the community
  itself to count as a wise one. See 428e-429a. It
  is the knowledge of those who plan and guide the
  community that makes the community a wise one.

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Virtues in the community

• 2. Courage
• The courage of the community is to be found in
  certain steadfast beliefs of the military class
  they will stick to believing that only those
  things the leaders have trained them to fear are
  really worth fearing. (Question why is courage
  about what you believe, not about what you do?)

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Virtues in the community

• 3. Self-discipline
• The self-discipline of the community is to be
  found in the agreement, between the classes,
  about who should rule and who should be ruled.
  the desires of the common majority are
  controlled by the desires and the intelligence of
  the minority of better men (431cd)

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Virtues in the community

• 4. Morality
• The morality of the community is that every
  individual has to do just one of the jobs
  relevant to the community, the one for which his
  nature has best equipped him. morality is
  doing ones job and not intruding elsewhere
  (433a)

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Community morality

• Morality is the dedication of each person to
  supporting the community, with members of the
  different classes having different ways to make
  this contribution whether by producing,
  guarding or ruling).
• Morality makes the other virtues possible.
  (433bc)

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Morality and self-discipline

• Whats the difference between self-discipline and
  morality?

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Morality and self-discipline

• Whats the difference between self-discipline and
  morality?
• self-discipline was a recognition only of
  superiority and inferiority, not of the full
  scope of ones position in a particular class in
  a state which requires co-operation from all
  classes. () For to be just moral one has to
  do ones own, know what ones natural talents
  are and the ways these should be developed for
  the common good.
• Julia Annas (whose book on the Republic is on
  reserve at UTM library)

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The individual

• Virtues in the community all concern the
  relations among its parts are there also
  relevant parts within an individual?

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The individual

• Virtues in the community all concern the
  relations among its parts are there also
  relevant parts within an individual?
• Conflict within the self is a sign that the self
  is divided into parts (how does Socrates argue
  for that?) 436b

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The three parts of the mind (or soul)

• The rational part (which guides us when we act on
  the basis of what we think is good)
• The passionate part (which guides us when we act
  from emotion e.g. pride)
• The desirous part (which guides us when we act
  from appetite e.g. thirst)

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The parts of the soul

• The rational part of the soul is distinct from
  the passionate part (look at children, who have
  lots of passion before they have reason441ab)
• The rational part of the soul can use the
  passionate part to control the desirous part

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The three parts of the mind correspond to parts
of community

• The rational part corresponds to the rulers
• The passionate part corresponds to the
  auxiliaries
• The desirous part corresponds to the producers

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Virtues in the individual

• 1. Individual wisdom is a matter of having the
  rational part of the soul govern the passions and
  desires

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Virtues in the individual

• 1. Individual wisdom is a matter of having the
  rational part of the soul govern the passions and
  desires
• 2. Individual courage is a matter of ones
  passionate part (ones emotional nature)
  retaining rational beliefs about what is to be
  feared

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Virtues in the individual

• 3. Individual self-discipline is a concord and
  attunement between these same parts all parts
  of the soul must agree that the rational part is
  to rule
• 4. Individual morality is a matter of having
  ones soul organized so that each part does its
  proper function (see 444d)

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Morality and health

• Morality is a matter of the inner harmony of
  ones soul (not defined in terms of outward acts,
  although outward acts could be signs of a moral
  or immoral soul)
• Morality is compared to health life is supposed
  to be not worth living if the natural
  constitution of the soul is ruined